Brock
Well-Known Member
Thought it would be good base line information to post destructive test and technical information below that compares the P2 Vs. TSS-04 secondaries. The engineer that generated the comparison is very qualified and is based on actual hands on test results and CVT power train design experience. I don't feel it is appropriate to reveal the source at this time but just consider the information as input when your TSS-04 need replacing. I hope to devote time this winter (if we get snow) refining both primary and P2 clutches spring and weight combinations for a 2010 Turbo LX with 2012 flash. To date the TSS-04 with PS helix is favored and that's only due to the extensive development and work by others on the site. In the end I believe the P2 with 3 rollers will rank on top. The TSS-04 non replaceable helix bushing and sheave bushing wear is the culprit that gradually causes performance deterioration. Another topic on this site shows a prototype replacement TSS helix bushing with 2.5 times the surface area.
The P2 has better top speed and back shift for several reasons:
1) It runs less spring force because its engagement and shift out heights are bigger than the team. The high shift out force of the Team restricts high ratio
2) Its bearing span is wider and therefore it can run looser fitting bearings while maintaining the same or better sheave alignment
3) Three rollers keep the moveable sheave more correctly aligned with the stationary during up-shift and down-shift.
4) The helix stands alone in the clutch. It does not attach to a sheave. This separates the torque transfer function from the torque feedback function. Belt pull (800-1000 lbs force) does not side load the helix.
5) The spring stays centered in the clutch and the sides of the spring do the rub anything in the clutch like in the team. The Team TSS-04 implemented this change on the 2011 models to improve backshift. They did it by chamfering the spider spring cup and added the same chamfer as the P2 to the steel spring cup.
6) The P2 come stock with a delrin cup in the helix to reduce friction
7) The three rollers maintain sheave spacing all around the clutch in the neutral position. Look at how much wider the sheave spacing is on the Team clutch near the tension adjuster screw. This affects your starting ratio.
The P2 lives on an engine test dyno approximately 3 times that of the Team TSS-04. The Team TSS-04 will complete 9 power-on jumps off a 3 foot loading ramp on wet dirt with 192 studded track before it either shatters the roller or spins the threaded in shaft.
The P2, with it's cast-in shaft, will complete between 28 and 45 of the same jump and will crack the stationary sheave at the shaft interface or break a tooth off the helix. The suspension rails will be replaced three times before completing this test with the P2. The suspension rails are the fuse in a sled with the P2.
I have run this clutch on my race sleds for 4 years now with no issues. I don't know anyone that has switched to this clutch and had issues.
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The P2 has better top speed and back shift for several reasons:
1) It runs less spring force because its engagement and shift out heights are bigger than the team. The high shift out force of the Team restricts high ratio
2) Its bearing span is wider and therefore it can run looser fitting bearings while maintaining the same or better sheave alignment
3) Three rollers keep the moveable sheave more correctly aligned with the stationary during up-shift and down-shift.
4) The helix stands alone in the clutch. It does not attach to a sheave. This separates the torque transfer function from the torque feedback function. Belt pull (800-1000 lbs force) does not side load the helix.
5) The spring stays centered in the clutch and the sides of the spring do the rub anything in the clutch like in the team. The Team TSS-04 implemented this change on the 2011 models to improve backshift. They did it by chamfering the spider spring cup and added the same chamfer as the P2 to the steel spring cup.
6) The P2 come stock with a delrin cup in the helix to reduce friction
7) The three rollers maintain sheave spacing all around the clutch in the neutral position. Look at how much wider the sheave spacing is on the Team clutch near the tension adjuster screw. This affects your starting ratio.
The P2 lives on an engine test dyno approximately 3 times that of the Team TSS-04. The Team TSS-04 will complete 9 power-on jumps off a 3 foot loading ramp on wet dirt with 192 studded track before it either shatters the roller or spins the threaded in shaft.
The P2, with it's cast-in shaft, will complete between 28 and 45 of the same jump and will crack the stationary sheave at the shaft interface or break a tooth off the helix. The suspension rails will be replaced three times before completing this test with the P2. The suspension rails are the fuse in a sled with the P2.
I have run this clutch on my race sleds for 4 years now with no issues. I don't know anyone that has switched to this clutch and had issues.
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