Help from the clutching Experts

[skpopoman]

2017 Assault switch 1.6 cobra, 21-38 gearing all else stock. 1500~miles (his)
2017 Pro S switch 1.3 cobra, 22-38 gearing all else stock. 1500~miles (hers)
Both sleds have have side clearances set to .010-.020. 2 Derlin washers under spring cup in secondary. Non eth mode with 91 premium.
Both were reving 8400-8550 plus with stock clutching.
Decided to bring it down abit with pieces from personal parts inventory.
Assault got Dalton QAP4 with .7 g at the tip and 1.3 g at the base for a total of 72g, with a slp 120 310 black yellow spring
Pro S got 68g polaris with a 100 275 black team spring.
RPMs are now down 8150-8350. Everything ok from slower roll ons or a flipper wack and hold.
However, when travelling at speeds 50mph~ - 70mph~ and rolling into WOT results in 7700-8000 at best.
I realize these arent ideal setups but 8550 is no good either.
Clutching experts advise.
Thanks in advance

 

[OutCast]

72G might be a bit too much weight for a stock motor. Try going with next smaller pins. I would also run a 120/320 spring, especially in place of that 100/275. The 120/310 is fine in the Assault so its either change to a 120/320 or take out some pin weight. I'd take out the weight 1st choice.

 

[Lid1]

To much weight for that set up. The sled can pull em up with the inertia of the swing from the bottom but can't swing em up from say the halfway position . Most likely if you put the sled In some heavy wet snow or warmer conditions it wouldnt be able to swing em up either. You could pull helix angle away also and try that if you had something shallower laying around. But I would pull weight probably starting in mid and tip

 

[skpopoman]

I was supprised that the Assault pulled 72 ish grams as well as it does. That SLP spring is measured at 1.25" instead of 1.19" like the other manufacturers do. May end up with slightly more finish tension then?
Remember not all my slugs are threaded all the way in. 1.3 gram right at base and .7 at tip.
Is it worth taking the .7 gram slug out of tip and or the 1.3gram slug out of base and retry with 70grams?

Lets look at the Pro S. Over revving with 66s but doesnt want to pull 68s real well. Near new stock rate spring.
So the choice is: over rev stock set up
under rev with 68s and stock rate spring
68s and give it more spring??

 

[webbe]

Dalton makes a 100-305 primary for the pro s . Ask opinions as im a noob to cluching but it would give same engagement with little bumb on top...

 

[racerdave]

68's with 120-310 poo spring, and I'm no expert by any means.

 

[Lid1]

You can do that or take 68 and 66 and weigh them. If the 68 are "heavy" grind the sides of the heaviest ones to match the lightest if that's not enough keep taking off material to 67 grams. Or yes you can run a lil heavier end poundage on primary spring.BUT i would also clearance the spider nut and ck. For spring contact and also look very close at primary and see it the weight tips are making contact with the aluminum at any point of the swing.

 

[skpopoman]

Spider nuts have been chamfered with a light coat of grey primer to help show any spring contact. Was fine with gold springs, but both show some signs of light contact with the team and slp springs.
The 68s were slightly on the heavy side at around 68.5ish grams
SO... Its no secret that there is no love for the factory gold springs on Axys sleds. Dont bother clutching them with a spring with that poundage??
Is it accurate to say--pick the start poundage of your primary spring to personal preference, and a 310-330 finish rate, then weight the primary to the target rpm using a spring in that range???

 

[Lid1]

Well. I'm no guru. I'm just a guy that like to "mess around" although I have pretty good grasp of how stuff works. So there are other issues at play other than what the first and second number are. The rate of which tension is applied is also a factor. So let me answer this way. Yes the first number is a lot of preference as to engagement. Higher isn't always better. Traction and surface is a huge factor here so is at what rpm the engine starts to make power . In other words an engine that doesn't have a lot of power at all or low torque generally calls for more rpm at engagement. A more powerful torque engine generally requires less engagement rpm. This is dictated by the ability to hold traction. Is you bring the power in to hard and spin your not going forward. My general rule is feed it engagement till you create to much spin then back it down till is controlled as dictated by traction. I'm heavy and personally prefer a lil more engagement than others. I personally don't usually go over 320 at the most on the other end more commonly 310 BUT if the conditions are hard and good for speed with less resistance I have actually had good results from springs even softer including the gold. Or up to 300. As long as sled will pull the rpm I don't mind letting the primary shift faster and with less resistance. Again condition related. As a general trail set up I usually run a lil stiffer 300-310 because I feel this is more forgiving to diff. Snow conditions and resistance one might encounter through the day .results may vary,and there is more than one way to skin a cat and get same results. Also not all sleds are the same so each one may have a lil different sweet spot .

 

[Bigfuse]

In my 17 Assault I've had good luck with Dalton QAP-3 weights with 3/8 at tip and 5/8 at heel with the Dalton 100-305 spring. In my P2 I use a 140-200 tabbed spring with a Dalton 50-44 fully progressive helix. I have 133 Woodys Triggers and 1.80 gearing in it. This set up works well, for me anyways.

 

[skpopoman]

The Pro S got put back to stock. Going on a day trip tomorrow, to tough to ride and switch sleds all day and try to monitor/figure out what both are doing and try to enjoy the ride. (I know, first world problems...)
The Assault kept the 120 310 spring, got the 68s and a new XS811 belt which most have said brings RPMs down abit. We will find out tomorrow.
I have to trailer 2 hours to get to rideable snow, so tuning kinda takes the back burner when you have to either do it trail side or wait till the next outting to try out changes...
I also realized that somewhere I have a set of QAP 2 daltons, once i find them another option will be open.

 

[Polarisjackass]

I think you go to work on the secondary to there's no way long tracks and short tracks should all have the same set up from Polaris blue black spring and the same helix in all sleds even gear change from sled to sled and still Polaris puts the same in all sleds

 

[ogrant]

well...what ever happened on your last ride out?