Powaton
Active Member
In case anyone is interested in my rambling opinions...
Looks like Polaris is walking back on the external shock skid design. New CC suspension in the Indy is a high end painted tunnel, painted rail premium shock sled at the same price point as the Axys AND comes with the 850. You don't make a premium sled out of what was previously an also ran unless you have a plan. Depending on how customers react to this, I could see the out of skid shock going away.
The benchmark skids...For those that don't know the nuts and bolts, there really isn't a ton of difference between an R-Motion or an Axys as far as the way they work. Just a different way to skin the cat that results in a different look, some decreased complexity(Axys) and some transfer advantage.
R motion isn't mechanically front to rear coupled. Niether is the Axys. R-Motion is rear to front coupled, but when the coupling is turned down all the way on the Ski doo, it is only very lightly coupled rear to front. Even when fully coupled the R motion isn't a heavily coupled skid, and only rear to front.
It looks like the new CC is front to rear coupled in traditional style like the Cat still is and all the old Pol skids were. I like this change. My only grip about the non front to rear coupled skids is that it's easy to crash through front arm travel. Setup and dual rate springs basically eliminate this. But I have seen it as an issue from the SC4 ski doo-R motion and AXYS. The front shock on any skid from M10 to R motion to Axys is falling rate. Just the way its mounted. The only skid that tries to mitigate this is the PRS Lynx. That skid has a little link on the front arm shock that makes it less falling rate. One positive effect of front to rear coupling is that transferring some work from the front arm to the rear arm at the right time effectively makes the front arm not be falling rate and you need less setup shenanigans to get it all to work properly. The disadvantage is extra parts count, and binding possibility if things are built like crap.
Nobody really talks about it because all the press goes to the other guys. But Arctic cat 129 skid has quietly had one of the best rear suspensions. Not the absolute best at one thing, bit the best at everything and the best as being a suspension that you can just get on and go without getting into the weeds with setup or needing aftermarket springs and revalving.
It looks like this new Polaris skid takes the best design elements of the cat skid, old polaris skid, r motion skid and combines them. Basically a Cat skid with more front and rear arm travel and assembled by someone other than Cat!
More design talk:
Front arm travel on the R Motion and the Axys are very similar. Front arm length are very similar. Though the motion ratio of the R motion shock is less, so it needs less damping and less spring for similar results. At the expense of a longer shock for the R motion. Neither here nor there in regards to how it all works in the end though.
The total travel, avg shock motion ratio and shock length are strikingly similar between the R motion and the Axys.
1 important difference. The Axys rear shock and spring go along for the ride together. Whereas the R motion (and now the new Polaris CC) the spring motion ratio and shock motion ratio take a separate journey.
Axys advantage will always be wheelie poping weight transfer AND bottoming resistance combined with a decent ride. The spring AND the shock on the rear arm are BOTH "soft" in the initial travel for the Axys. Double whammy for balls out weight transfer. I don't think the other skids will be able to match that without sacrificing elsewhere.
The rear shock motion ratio of Axys, R- motion and the new CC are similar with a soft start and a progressive ramp till the end, but the springs are on a separate more linear journey. So R motion has soft shock but higher spring rate start.
Regardkess, the bottom like is that I think your avarage person just doesn't like the look of the Axys with the out of shock skid.
A friend of mine just passed on a 0 mile leftover 600 XCR for under 10k and instead bought slightly used ski doo 600 TNT for about the same price. He proceeded to tell me how he likes the way the polaris rides handles, runs, how he's more comfortable on it etc...but he bought the Doo any way. He said he just can't stand the look of the Axys.
There's the rub for a lot of people. I guess I'm weird because I like the look Of the Axys. But my gut tells me I need to start liking traditional skids again.
Looks like Polaris is walking back on the external shock skid design. New CC suspension in the Indy is a high end painted tunnel, painted rail premium shock sled at the same price point as the Axys AND comes with the 850. You don't make a premium sled out of what was previously an also ran unless you have a plan. Depending on how customers react to this, I could see the out of skid shock going away.
The benchmark skids...For those that don't know the nuts and bolts, there really isn't a ton of difference between an R-Motion or an Axys as far as the way they work. Just a different way to skin the cat that results in a different look, some decreased complexity(Axys) and some transfer advantage.
R motion isn't mechanically front to rear coupled. Niether is the Axys. R-Motion is rear to front coupled, but when the coupling is turned down all the way on the Ski doo, it is only very lightly coupled rear to front. Even when fully coupled the R motion isn't a heavily coupled skid, and only rear to front.
It looks like the new CC is front to rear coupled in traditional style like the Cat still is and all the old Pol skids were. I like this change. My only grip about the non front to rear coupled skids is that it's easy to crash through front arm travel. Setup and dual rate springs basically eliminate this. But I have seen it as an issue from the SC4 ski doo-R motion and AXYS. The front shock on any skid from M10 to R motion to Axys is falling rate. Just the way its mounted. The only skid that tries to mitigate this is the PRS Lynx. That skid has a little link on the front arm shock that makes it less falling rate. One positive effect of front to rear coupling is that transferring some work from the front arm to the rear arm at the right time effectively makes the front arm not be falling rate and you need less setup shenanigans to get it all to work properly. The disadvantage is extra parts count, and binding possibility if things are built like crap.
Nobody really talks about it because all the press goes to the other guys. But Arctic cat 129 skid has quietly had one of the best rear suspensions. Not the absolute best at one thing, bit the best at everything and the best as being a suspension that you can just get on and go without getting into the weeds with setup or needing aftermarket springs and revalving.
It looks like this new Polaris skid takes the best design elements of the cat skid, old polaris skid, r motion skid and combines them. Basically a Cat skid with more front and rear arm travel and assembled by someone other than Cat!
More design talk:
Front arm travel on the R Motion and the Axys are very similar. Front arm length are very similar. Though the motion ratio of the R motion shock is less, so it needs less damping and less spring for similar results. At the expense of a longer shock for the R motion. Neither here nor there in regards to how it all works in the end though.
The total travel, avg shock motion ratio and shock length are strikingly similar between the R motion and the Axys.
1 important difference. The Axys rear shock and spring go along for the ride together. Whereas the R motion (and now the new Polaris CC) the spring motion ratio and shock motion ratio take a separate journey.
Axys advantage will always be wheelie poping weight transfer AND bottoming resistance combined with a decent ride. The spring AND the shock on the rear arm are BOTH "soft" in the initial travel for the Axys. Double whammy for balls out weight transfer. I don't think the other skids will be able to match that without sacrificing elsewhere.
The rear shock motion ratio of Axys, R- motion and the new CC are similar with a soft start and a progressive ramp till the end, but the springs are on a separate more linear journey. So R motion has soft shock but higher spring rate start.
Regardkess, the bottom like is that I think your avarage person just doesn't like the look of the Axys with the out of shock skid.
A friend of mine just passed on a 0 mile leftover 600 XCR for under 10k and instead bought slightly used ski doo 600 TNT for about the same price. He proceeded to tell me how he likes the way the polaris rides handles, runs, how he's more comfortable on it etc...but he bought the Doo any way. He said he just can't stand the look of the Axys.
There's the rub for a lot of people. I guess I'm weird because I like the look Of the Axys. But my gut tells me I need to start liking traditional skids again.
