• We have updated the site to the latest version. You will be required to log in to make sure your account is active. There are quite a few new functions so it will take a little time to get use to it. Please post if you see or have any issues.

Performance Q & A with Joey from Bikeman

JOEY,
HAVE YOU HAD A 2017 ON THE DYNO YET.
JUST WONDERING IF THE HP NUMBERS HAVE CHANGED.
I HAVE HEARD RUMBLINGS LAST YEAR THAT POLARIS HAD AN ECU 10 HP + OVER STOCK?
 
Joey you said you had a tune for the y pipe? I just got my 2 bully dogs and y pipes from you and there is no y pipe tune on them. Neal said i would have to wait for snow to get an updated tune?
 
Nortrider said:
Just looking at your big bore kit and durability kit and notice your claim on the taller pistons. How does it compare to the rk tek kit that doesn't have the taller pistons?
Click to expand...

Not sure what model 860 you are addressing so I'll cover them all.

I try not to compare our product to other companies its a small industry so I don't do it. I will tell you how and why we do certain things.
The reason we use taller pistons because the stoke bore diameter to piston skirt length ratio is not sufficient for a 2 stroke engine in any of the Polaris CFI800 engines from the Dragon to the AXYS. We knew we had to add a quarter inch to the skirt length from the start to get back to the correct ratio. We decided to add the quarter inch between the wrist pin and the crown of the piston for these reasons.
1. Easy adjustment to cylinder height by adding a shim so port and head.
2. Power is gained by using the cylinder shim, it lifts the intake side cylinder skirt supports up out of the reed cage opening allowing for better flow from the reeds into the case and the 800CFI case is too small for a 800 let alone a 860. Case volume creates a bounce in the air pressure and the optimum size of it changes with rpm and air velocity coming through the reeds. Our durability will make a sled with no fuel changes run a little richer at idle and leaner up above 7000 rpm, this is because the added volume is less optimum at low rpm and more optimum at higher rpm.
3. Our piston has room to space out the rings allowing them to run cooler and last longer.
4. We offset the wrist pin towards the exhaust side of the piston .020" to reduce skirt load and increase lifespan.
5. Our porting is second to none, we have half a century of experience and racing into how and why we do and don't do certain things in our ports.
6. We have our own design pipe specifically made for the 860 with the airflow and tuning of it correct for the Bore, Stroke, Port Duration and Airflow.
7. If you are talking about our AXYS 860 nobody else reflashes ECU's the way we do using the Bullydog with our programming for the 860 makes it run more stable than a bone stock machine.

Thanks for asking Questions hope I hit some key points. We truly are a different kind of performance company than any other out there because we have an amazing team of people that have been learning in the industry for a long time, collective intelligence is always better than one person(unless alcohol is involved). We are always investing in new technology to increase power potential, reliability and consistency.
 
Haulin-the-mail said:
JOEY,
HAVE YOU HAD A 2017 ON THE DYNO YET.
JUST WONDERING IF THE HP NUMBERS HAVE CHANGED.
I HAVE HEARD RUMBLINGS LAST YEAR THAT POLARIS HAD AN ECU 10 HP + OVER STOCK?
Click to expand...
No I haven't but I will soon, I will let you know that I haven't seen anything in the programming indicating 10hp gain I am guessing it will be about the same as 2016
 
proS800 said:
Joey you said you had a tune for the y pipe? I just got my 2 bully dogs and y pipes from you and there is no y pipe tune on them. Neal said i would have to wait for snow to get an updated tune?
Click to expand...

I'll have to get with Neal Monday and see what we are releasing I am sure we will have a update coming for them but we do have tune we were running last year. Email me and I can get you started off with that. Joey@bikemanperformance.com
 
JoeyStrub-Bikeman said:
We will have a profile similar to the 10 series this Season it's already in the works and will also continue to have our current profile. Our pipe/programming likes the RPM to creep up as it gets hotter so that is part of the reason for the design.

The profile we currently use likes a lot of tip weight and works excellent in many conditions. Clutching is a subject that has so many possibilities that if you speak with 10 different people with great running stuff most likely you will get 10 different opinions on how it should be clutched. This happens all the time in this field.
Click to expand...
Div20
 
Joey, you guys machining valves to match cylinder/ports
Especially when fully open(full travel)
IMG_0114.JPG

This ones closed.
IMG_0113.JPG


This ones fully open
 
I guess I should have said stock cylinder matching ?
 
JoeyStrub-Bikeman said:
Not sure what model 860 you are addressing so I'll cover them all.

I try not to compare our product to other companies its a small industry so I don't do it. I will tell you how and why we do certain things.
The reason we use taller pistons because the stoke bore diameter to piston skirt length ratio is not sufficient for a 2 stroke engine in any of the Polaris CFI800 engines from the Dragon to the AXYS. We knew we had to add a quarter inch to the skirt length from the start to get back to the correct ratio. We decided to add the quarter inch between the wrist pin and the crown of the piston for these reasons.
1. Easy adjustment to cylinder height by adding a shim so port and head.
2. Power is gained by using the cylinder shim, it lifts the intake side cylinder skirt supports up out of the reed cage opening allowing for better flow from the reeds into the case and the 800CFI case is too small for a 800 let alone a 860. Case volume creates a bounce in the air pressure and the optimum size of it changes with rpm and air velocity coming through the reeds. Our durability will make a sled with no fuel changes run a little richer at idle and leaner up above 7000 rpm, this is because the added volume is less optimum at low rpm and more optimum at higher rpm.
3. Our piston has room to space out the rings allowing them to run cooler and last longer.
4. We offset the wrist pin towards the exhaust side of the piston .020" to reduce skirt load and increase lifespan.
5. Our porting is second to none, we have half a century of experience and racing into how and why we do and don't do certain things in our ports.
6. We have our own design pipe specifically made for the 860 with the airflow and tuning of it correct for the Bore, Stroke, Port Duration and Airflow.
7. If you are talking about our AXYS 860 nobody else reflashes ECU's the way we do using the Bullydog with our programming for the 860 makes it run more stable than a bone stock machine.

Thanks for asking Questions hope I hit some key points. We truly are a different kind of performance company than any other out there because we have an amazing team of people that have been learning in the industry for a long time, collective intelligence is always better than one person(unless alcohol is involved). We are always investing in new technology to increase power potential, reliability and consistency.
Click to expand...

Joey, from center of pin to bottom of skirt you added a 1/4"???
I thought it was only from center of pin to top of pistons??

Next one, Polaris already offsets the pin 0.020" from factory.

I think another problem is weight of pistons have increased 40-60 grams since 2002 up. Inside the piston on intake side is a huge shoulder that can be lightened up on stock 800 ho pistons . The weight is the key to me. It's way to heavy from factory. I know the wosseners weigh less then stock, but by how much I don't know ?
Getting the piston, with rings,wrist pin, and clips down to near 500 grams is the key to me


Also the Polaris pistons taper 0.006" more then wosseners and cat from bottom to top.

I'm just asking questions and like what you are doing and appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. Just wanted you to know that Div20
 
Brock said:
Joey, from center of pin to bottom of skirt you added a 1/4"???
I thought it was only from center of pin to top of pistons??

Next one, Polaris already offsets the pin 0.020" from factory.

I think another problem is weight of pistons have increased 40-60 grams since 2002 up. Inside the piston on intake side is a huge shoulder that can be lightened up on stock 800 ho pistons . The weight is the key to me. It's way to heavy from factory. I know the wosseners weigh less then stock, but by how much I don't know ?
Getting the piston, with rings,wrist pin, and clips down to near 500 grams is the key to me


Also the Polaris pistons taper 0.006" more then wosseners and cat from bottom to top.

I'm just asking questions and like what you are doing and appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. Just wanted you to know that Div20
Click to expand...

The lower profile of the piston is the same as stock, the .250" has been added between wrist pin and crown of piston. overall result is a .250 longer skirt when measured from the crown.
Polaris did not always offset their wrist pin towards the exhaust skirt like our kit, I believe it started in 13 or 14 for them.
The Bikeman Wossner pistons taper .0075" from top to bottom to compensate for how much hotter the crown/dome portion of piston runs.
The wrist pin weighs 112.8g, and the total weight is 572g which is lighter than stock but not near your goal of 570 we actually went to a heavier wrist pin for longevity because that is what our goal is. How did you come up with a 500g goal? the total power potential is the same no matter what the weight is once RPM stabilizes. A lighter set up will rev a little faster but can also throw balance off.
20161024_093551.jpg
 
I meant down around 500 grams and getting it the lowest as possible without a sacrificing reliability and strength .

Since I have great friends in the industry as engine builder's, machinist/tool and die,etc..with countless years of experience and racing , there are materials/coatings that are lighter and stronger that resist less and don't gull up and will last .
Ex: wrist pins
There is a company in Michigan making light weight titanium


The total of piston weight with everything can be down around 500 -550 grams in my mind and others . They key as you know is making them weigh the exact same down to .01 of a gram to have great balance on both( blue printing) = longevity. Spool up way quicker like the pork chop crank Polaris has and now ski doo has. And would be easier on cranks too.

Polaris has made their piston weight excessive over the years. +40-60 grams for example,vs your wosseners. The total taper is 0.020-0.022" from bottom to top on Polaris ho pistons as I just measured . Cat 800 is 0.016-0.018" taper .


Just some observations .
Thanks for your reply
 
I asked you a while ago just wondering if you got the chance to test to see if bullydog installation effect the gearing calibration, ignition lock? Also in your comparison 2017 vs 2016, They released an updated map in feb 2016 for the 2016 models. Reflash calibration 4016413. That also includes cold sieze prevention like the 17 map which keeps valved down until certain engine temp with warning displayed. Just wondered if your bully dog map will still do that?
 
coryatver said:
I asked you a while ago just wondering if you got the chance to test to see if bullydog installation effect the gearing calibration, ignition lock? Also in your comparison 2017 vs 2016, They released an updated map in feb 2016 for the 2016 models. Reflash calibration 4016413. That also includes cold sieze prevention like the 17 map which keeps valved down until certain engine temp with warning displayed. Just wondered if your bully dog map will still do that?
Click to expand...
Once it gets colder out we will play with gearing parameter changes through Digital wrench and see if it changes or messes with the tuning at all, until this summer I hadn't ever messed with that portion of digital wrench so we'll see what happens it may just be writing a different section of the ECU than the engine management.
We also have new updated base files that need to be field tested that include all the cold engine lock out of the reflashed 16's and 17 ECU functions. As of now it looks like everything will cross fine to older years but we never assume anything.
 
Joey i was gonna mention to neal that you guys can try that out on my 2 sleds since they are already regeared and i had my dealer change the ratio in the sled for it. You know i just put on bully dogs on both sleds with the full exhaust.
 
proS800 said:
Joey i was gonna mention to neal that you guys can try that out on my 2 sleds since they are already regeared and i had my dealer change the ratio in the sled for it. You know i just put on bully dogs on both sleds with the full exhaust.
Click to expand...
Awesome!
 
My Wiseco pistons were 505g with pin and rings. Both were same.
I don't recall what stock was.
 
Joey,
Is it normal to have to notch the battery bracket to fit your full velocity can on a 2016 800 pro S sb?
 
Gene said:
Joey,
Is it normal to have to notch the battery bracket to fit your full velocity can on a 2016 800 pro S sb?
Click to expand...
Yes it's a pretty easy modification.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


Back
Top Bottom