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Reliability Kit wich one to use

Discussion in 'Rush/Switchback' started by shwantz34, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. shwantz34

    shwantz34 Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Ste-Brigitte -De-Laval
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    2019
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Indy 850 XC 129
    I would like to have your tough about reliability kit available.

    What i am looking for is

    1 (reliability)
    2 Performance

    Bikeman, Wossner, RK tech ???
    wich one will you chose, and why

    How much more would it be to put a stroker reliability kit ?
     
  2.  
  3. Vern Over Jr

    Vern Over Jr Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Western Pa
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    45
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Axys 800 anniversary red
    My first post. Thanks to all for the great info on this site. Great wealth of knowledge and a ton of experience on here. You definitely in my opinion need to talk to Doc. I saw the dyno sheets on Docs stroker. By now I'm sure he has a lot of miles on it.
     
  4. Vern Over Jr

    Vern Over Jr Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Western Pa
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    45
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Axys 800 anniversary red
    Hey Pierre Poulin trick lookin sled. Did you powder the spindles and change center hood ? I like !
     
  5. shwantz34

    shwantz34 Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Ste-Brigitte -De-Laval
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    2019
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Indy 850 XC 129
    I Vern , welcome here
    The spindle was on my snowcheck order.
    The painted cab, front bumper, skid plate, low screen, seat and rear bag
    are accessories i order separately. I realy love it like that :)
     
  6. Vern Over Jr

    Vern Over Jr Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Western Pa
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    45
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Axys 800 anniversary red
    It is real sharp. Last year I ran the pipe mod and a dobeck. Late getting it done and had some wiring issues Went thru 4 Ecu till they figured it out Harness too short. Ran well tho a lot of dets This year.slp pipe and BD only Pretty crisp. But others on here have way more knowledge on pcv. I think I heard DTR has tested a lot of different things. Good place to ask questions probably.
     
  7. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    I said it before on here and I'm going to say it again .

    Do you think Polaris engineers don't know what their doing when designing engines, engine components and want warranty claims against the company that they work for???


    The aftermarket companies would have you believe Polaris engineers don't know what their doing, but they do ....... So, Polaris is going to design an engine that fails and has warranty claims were the company loses money??? I don't think so. No big corporations want to lose money, it's that simple . It's ALL about the bottom line .

    Ask yourself this, it's reasonable.
     
    Ry3an7 and Ottawaair like this.
  8. shwantz34

    shwantz34 Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Ste-Brigitte -De-Laval
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    2019
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Indy 850 XC 129

    tanks for the reply Vern,

    I'm i right, with the BD ?
    You can only download map and use it for data acquisition, but you can't develop your proper map ?
    so you re attached to somebody who have the combo that you looking for, like Bikeman or Slp..........
     
  9. shwantz34

    shwantz34 Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Ste-Brigitte -De-Laval
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    2019
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Indy 850 XC 129
    I Brock , thank's for the reply,
    I don't think that Polaris put crap pistons in their sled,
    but i don't think they are the best on the market either. They (Polaris)certainly are not on par
    with pistons that you have in Japanese 2 stroke engine ( Suzuki, Yamaha)
    i've seen a lot of OEM Polaris piston with problem the top of the piston (top ring groove)
    most beetween 6000 to 10000 km.

    I ride my sled hard, so i whant to keep it top notch.
    Their is no way that i will pay $865.00 us $$$ for average Oem pistons
    when i can have Kit for $399.00 .

    I 'm not stupid enought to think that jobber have the R&D to competition Polaris,
    but i'm sure they are Wise enought to source good quality piston made by reputable Piston OEM.

    So i repeat my questions, wicjh one seems to have the best quality kit available ?

    If i'm right you do not have put Polaris Pistons On your Stroker ?
     
    RichProR800 likes this.
  10. Vern Over Jr

    Vern Over Jr Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Western Pa
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    45
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Axys 800 anniversary red
    I do believe you are correct on the BD
     
  11. Vern Over Jr

    Vern Over Jr Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Western Pa
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    45
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris Axys 800 anniversary red
    Guys. The whole piston thing is exactly what happened to me. At 1500 miles went way down on power. Back to dealer. Good bunch of guys but they said I had no problems. Meanwhile no power. Went to a reputable race shop. Spent my own money. No complaints just get me power And here is were I ended up Just trying to get reliable power. Love the sled!
     
  12. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    First the cylinder needs to be spec'd because no piston along with these aftermarket will last.

    Do you know the alloys the aftermarket companies pistons are made with?? A piston is only as good as the alloys it's made with. They can tell you what you wanna hear, but it doesn't mean it's 100% true . Only a lab can test this.

    What I'm getting at is don't believe everything you read .

    There is no way a big company like Polaris wants warranty claims costing money, no way. So their not going to build sub par for that reason. The internet may say otherwise , but we all know internet bs.

    That being said . Can it be improved?? Yes. Does it mean it's junk in the first place??? No.

    If I'm going to make it better you mine as wells add power in my mind.So, my choice is the great light weight cast cat pistons , titanium wrist pins, shim and head to match
     
    RichProR800 likes this.
  13. Dr.Notadoo

    Dr.Notadoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    799
    Location:
    Richmondville
    the cat pistons will need slight modding if you want optimal air flow, and longer durability. Best kit ive seen is TAR ,the correct shim,and his head with high flow thermostat stat..lighter weight wrist pins if you want to spend the extra coin as Brock mentioned..
     
    RichProR800 likes this.
  14. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    Ok, you mention way more durability and reliability then stock. And we know every 2 stroke can be improved on this , not just Polaris. Ski doo e tec design is not desirable in so many ways.

    The snowmobile world has become a parts exchange program. You have a failure, just put on new parts. Or you have a failure and buy a so called kit and put it in and think it's better because they say so.

    The problem with all of this is nothing is spec'd like tolerances , checking cylinder , ports, port heights,piston alloys, ring alloys, piston weight, etc.... I could go on ...

    You want to build an engine that lasts then get a good performance shop like iantomassi to spec everything . Spec cylinder, port it, make sure pistons to cylinder are correct, get most out of air flow, install proper head design for fuel efficiency and hp, match valves to cylinder, port timing , both pistons weigh the same, etc,, basically blue printing above lower case . This is what will last , be reliable and have tons of hp too.

    You can't just buy a kit , slap it in and think it's better for the reasons I explained above

    Get a great reputable race shop like iantomassi to do your cylinder, get you pistons to match, head to match, etc... this is the proper way to do it .

    Not the parts exchange program thing
     
    RichProR800 likes this.
  15. Powaton

    Powaton Active Member

    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Ny
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    25
    Snowmobile:
    Pro S 800
    Lots of wisdom in this.

    One example...You think about the value of squish band clearance and compression ratio, the interplay between the two and how .002 makes the difference. How can you blindly assemble non oem parts and a spacer without measuring and re giggering the clearance of required?
     
    RichProR800 likes this.
  16. Ry3an7

    Ry3an7 Member

    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    WI
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    20
    Snowmobile:
    09 600 IQ Shift, 17 800 Switchback Pro S LE Lime Squeeze
    The thrifty man spends the most.

    And those who can't, should pay those who can, to do it for them so it's done right. Brock nailed it. Way too many variables and tight tolerances for your average joe to do it himself in his 2 car garage. Now if you're someone who knows what he's doing like Doc that's different. Otherwise it depends on how confident you are in your tools and wrenching skills.
     
  17. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    Wisdom, lol . I don't deserve that , lol Rofl, but thanks

    Just trying to be a realist . Div20

    Polaris is in no way perfect and never will be. Either is any other company .
     
  18. Ottawaair

    Ottawaair Member

    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Grand Haven, Mi.
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    24
    Snowmobile:
    2017 Polaris Assault
    I ran RKTek in my pro. Pistons and head.

    He uses Wossner pistons, and lightweight wrist pins.

    I consider myself average mechanic, but I did measure and weigh everything.

    My cylinder was fairly low mile at the time of the swap, so it measured out good.

    The Wossner pistons out of the box were the exact same weight, where as the Polaris pistons were not.

    The Wossner pistons had .003" cylinder clearance, and we're perfect round.

    (Don't quote my measurements, as I have them written down at the shop)

    The stock Pistons were already starting to collapse at the skirts.

    Kelsey's kit is just pistons and head if you want it.

    At the time he had a drop in piston kit, and a different piston that went with his head design. (Slightly taller or shorter, I can't remember).

    The piston and head combo yielded .050" squish, which is what I have always tried to shoot for on a trail motor.

    He was one of the few that did not use a cylinder shim.
    Much debate about the benefits of that.
    More crankcase volume, ability to run longer skirts ( I prefer short skirts ) lol,
    And changing the port timing.

    Personally, I feel that that the engineers have a better grasp on those parameters than most any other company.

    But, switching to a better quality piston, and lightweight wrist pin is definitely beneficial.

    The motor was more responsive, and had a more crisp sound to it. (better cylinder sealing providing better combustion).

    It also ran much smoother due to the Pistons being weight matched exactly.

    That's my experience with durability kits.
    If I made the switch on my axys, I would use RK Tek again.
    Or TAR as doc has said.

    The Wossner pistons are made in Germany, I believe, and are very high quality.

    I told myself I would leave this one stock, but it's got me thinking again.

    His kit sure did smooth out that vibrator that was in my pro.
     
  19. Whitey

    Whitey Member

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Michigan
     
  20. Whitey

    Whitey Member

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Michigan
    It is my understanding that RK TECH no longer uses Wossner pistons.
    Now uses a unique design manufactured by Wiseco.
     
  21. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    The piston tolerances are needed but it's also about the weight of piston( piston, rings, clips, wrist pin& bearing) . Stock and others being 580+ grams is a little heavy . Get the total weight down around 500 grams with a great designed piston, proper tolerances and you have less stress on other parts . This can equal more reliability and hp in the right hands
     
    RichProR800 likes this.

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