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Need a little help fine tuning

Powaton said:
Don't underestimate the importance of gearing lower. On this site, read all that Brock has to say on the topic. The theory behind why is sound and in field testing by him and others is positive. "North Star Rick" on Hard Core Sledder and others too.

Plus. Lower gearing will help as conditions deteriorate (warm thick snow) and if your belt/ clutches arn't perfect.

Yeah. A starting point of a perfect belt and perfect clutches is always best. But come February, you may want to ride more than wrench. Lower gearing is more tolerant of all setups.
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Already picked up the 70p chain, ordered the 40t gear, picked up chain case oil ...ordered some 10-70 weights to start and a 120-310 spring. now just trying to locate either a 50/44 or a 48-44 helix. Tough to find around here.
 
Can you ebay a helix?
 
Also. In case you haven't, make sure your exhaust is tight at all joints from cylinders to muffler.

Look for black goo at and around any joints.
 
any one know what size the secondary spring is when they say its blue/black. my team chart doesn't show that color combo
 
Powaton said:
I have the exact question and feelings as you. I hope more people chime in. But I will also let you know what im going to try.

If I top out at 96 or 104 I don't care right now. Maybe I will later , but now I want the sled to wow me with snap and "ready when I need it" performance. Like my 600 but more.

I'm doing this from my phone. So excuse the sloppy formatting.

I weigh 220 w/gear

Gearing. There is a reasonable consensus that this sled is geared too tall. Clutching can help. But gearing and clutching are the best answer. Because the tall hearing will work against even the best clutching. Brock has written about this. He also explains how the new clutch face angles make things worse for tall gearing.

GEARS
I'm going with 1.74 gearing (40 tooth bottom gear, stock 23 tooth top gear and a 70 pitch chain). It has been said that this is an efficient combo due to friendly chain radius, dog leg etc. I got everything off ebay. This sled has 3/4" hyvo gears/chain. You need the longer chain with this combo. Stock is 68 pitch.

With the lower gear ratio, now re clutch to take advantage of the new gearing and keep RPMs correct.

Weights, springs, helix.

For now I'm keeping the stock helix. I have seen many recomendations and I don't have 300 bucks on hand to play with different helixes. I'll deal with weights and springs, then see if I still feel the need for a helix. The stock helix can work okay.

PRIMARY CLUTCH
White 120/310 Primary spring.
EPI 72 gram Belly Buster weights.

Polaris standard #10 profile weights are good too. Brock and others have mentioned liking the belly buster profile and the fact that they are hard all the way thru. The belly busters are also reasonably priced.

Generally, more weight the lighter you are. Less weight the heavier and/or more track and stud load.

The range appears to be 68-74 grams.

Like, a 220 pound guy with a 1/4" ripsaw studded and 1.74 gearing will likely be in the 70 gram weight range. A 260 pound guy maybe 68, a 170 pound guy, maybe 74.

I got 72 gram weights and will grind some off the back of I need them lighter.

SECONARY CLUTCH
I'm going to try the 155/122 spring. Its a bit beefy but will work with stock helix.

If I try another helix later, I'll go with one of the helix spring combos talked about on this site. As of now I'm still learning. I don't fully understand the nomenclature for these helixes and which ones are "full progressive" "dual angle" or straight and why so many numbers identify them. It looks like they have 4 angles and some have a decimal and a dash. Then people in the know use shorthand to identify them and I just want a drink!

"Get youself a 44 fully progressive" says one guy. Then you read in a post that he loves his 66 44/46.6. Is that the 44?Then another post says 55/44 Then helixes on ebay say "66-56ER 64-54 ER". Is that 4 angles? Two helixes for the price of 1? Where do I buy the 55 and why do I feel stupid? Drinking too much?
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So if im 160lbs geared up ill have lto add more weight? Trying to figure out my weight in my clutch
 
ogrant said:
would that be similar as the 50-44f that Brock talks about? I'm having a hard time finding someone here in ontario that has them in stock. Always have to wait weeks it seems to get them. I guess I can order one from the states...any suggestions?
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If your in Ontario. Call and email 2koolperformance on parts you want. They have almost everything.
 
What doc is trying to say is right. You need to load motor with helix and weight and make it pull . Stiff springs aren't the way to go.

I know I said a 50/44 fp many times. That might be a little much for the heavier guys. Go with a 48/44 fp like doc said or a 48/42 fp. Use at least a 120 start secondary spring, I like the 140 start. It holds tension at start from heavier primary weights so the belt don't suck down in primary when u nail it. I like the 140/220 secondary spring.

You basically want an all around set up, fast trail and racing a little. So it needs to back shift reasonably and up shift good too. It's hard to get the best of both worlds .
 
Ditto. IMO it will come down to one of five secondary springs: 140-200, 155-222, 123-203, 140-220, 160-240. The mid 50 to mid 70 spring rates work very well with the cfi's. Select the starting poundage for good take off with your sleds ability to hook up.
 
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Brock said:
What doc is trying to say is right. You need to load motor with helix and weight and make it pull . Stiff springs aren't the way to go.

I know I said a 50/44 fp many times. That might be a little much for the heavier guys. Go with a 48/44 fp like doc said or a 48/42 fp. Use at least a 120 start secondary spring, I like the 140 start. It holds tension at start from heavier primary weights so the belt don't suck down in primary when u nail it. I like the 140/220 secondary spring.

You basically want an all around set up, fast trail and racing a little. So it needs to back shift reasonably and up shift good too. It's hard to get the best of both worlds .
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well I thank you guys for the advice so I picked up the 70p chain and new chain case oil, ordered the 40t sprocket(already have the 23 in my sled), ordered the lw420767 48-44f /46-42f er helix, already have the 140/200 spring to try and the 120-310 primary spring and 10-70 weights are on order too.

should pull like a whore now!

when I get it all together in the next week or two I'll definitely share my findings. as for now I seem to have the suspension where I want it and my new SLP Mohawks are friggin awesome. This machine is getting more fun with every ride.
 
Brock said:
What doc is trying to say is right. You need to load motor with helix and weight and make it pull . Stiff springs aren't the way to go.

I know I said a 50/44 fp many times. That might be a little much for the heavier guys. Go with a 48/44 fp like doc said or a 48/42 fp. Use at least a 120 start secondary spring, I like the 140 start. It holds tension at start from heavier primary weights so the belt don't suck down in primary when u nail it. I like the 140/220 secondary spring.

You basically want an all around set up, fast trail and racing a little. So it needs to back shift reasonably and up shift good too. It's hard to get the best of both worlds .
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I agree with Doc too. I just don't agree with the general statement that the 155/222 is too stiff. And that "stiff" springs are bad, without some quantification.

Yes. Too stiff is bad. Too soft is bad too. There is a range though.

Coming from a newbie perspective, declarative statements without qualification and clarification are extremely confusing.

As in: If you say something like, "stiff springs arn't the way to go" Then you say you personally use a spring that's about 14% stiffer start/9% stiffer finish than stock. The 155/222 is another 10% stiff on the start and finishes about the same.

So what's stiff? What's too stiff?

Stock is good? But so many respected tuners use something stiffer than stock? Even the people so say 'stiff is bad' are using stiffer than stock.

Quantification and clarification. How much and why.

Also, why don't sites do sticky posts anymore? This type of stiff is perfect for that. Like, if you have RPM problems, " here are the top 10 things to try." "here are some tested and proven clutch setups." etc...
 
Ya im confused here to. I thought the 155-222 would be stiffer then my 140-200. I think 8m using to soft of a spring in my team tied and my belts dropping down to fast
 
I think my problem is im using to soft of a spring with alll the studs im using so its sucking it down to fast????
 
polaristeamsec2springs.jpg
 
Powaton said:
I agree with Doc too. I just don't agree with the general statement that the 155/222 is too stiff. And that "stiff" springs are bad, without some quantification.

Yes. Too stiff is bad. Too soft is bad too. There is a range though.

Coming from a newbie perspective, declarative statements without qualification and clarification are extremely confusing.

As in: If you say something like, "stiff springs arn't the way to go" Then you say you personally use a spring that's about 14% stiffer start/9% stiffer finish than stock. The 155/222 is another 10% stiff on the start and finishes about the same.

So what's stiff? What's too stiff?

Stock is good? But so many respected tuners use something stiffer than stock? Even the people so say 'stiff is bad' are using stiffer than stock.

Quantification and clarification. How much and why.

Also, why don't sites do sticky posts anymore? This type of stiff is perfect for that. Like, if you have RPM problems, " here are the top 10 things to try." "here are some tested and proven clutch setups." etc...
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OK. A 160/260,160/280 180/260 are to stiff to me. Normal to me are, 120/200,120/220,140/200,140/220,
140/240,123/203. I consider a 140/240 the stiffest spring I would ever use. Just me.


Stiffer gives better back shift buts hurts up shift . Stiffer springs cause more friction,heat,belt heat, and that all can equal rpm loss and hp to track.

Clutching is an art and can be achieved in different ways. I know guys like me and doc like to use the heaviest weights possible and helix to load motor with the softest springs.
Load the motor and force it to pull but not suffer .

Clutching will always be a discussion,some will agree, some won't
 
Brock the 155/222 must fall in your usable range then?
 
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