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SSI pipe doesn't work

JMAXDOX
Nice write up!
What I've learned in 35 years of automotive, and 25 years of snowmobiles, is that what shows good numbers on the dyno, doesn't nesasarly work in the field!
One example--The best dirt late model carb makes 12 LESS HP on the dyno, but wins more races.
Sometimes stuff bolts on and works, and sometimes it's a pain in the ass.
My in the field testing show that the SSI pipe mod, Bikeman pipe, and the SLP pipe, all are about the same in a 660 ft. race. The SSI pipe mods seem to be having more problems then the SLP or the Bikeman.

IF I were you, I'd put the SLP back on and go out and have some fun.

Dyno's are great tools, I wish I had one.
Thanks Brock, and Doc for all the time and effort.
 
"((QUESTION)) As I start adding Fuel through the PCV to fix the DET issue doesn't that make my engine start losing some of that 5 HP that was gained over the other Pipes in the Shoot Out. " No not necessarily, if it is actually lean causing det you will pick up hp by adding fuel until the point where it cannot burn it all then you will start losing power. Do not get totally caught up on having to add or subtract fuel #'s (within reason) to get your setup dialed in. I have ran into this many times, Fuel pumps running at different pressures, injectors with different flow rates, fuel sock being cleaner or dirtier then you throw in the Tps being set differently by everybody, different factory maps, how hard your clutching is loading the motor and now hearing of throttle bodies that could be bad. Give it what it wants whether it be more or less fuel or timing. Yes it might be a pain in the ass getting this det, but once dialed in this pipemod rips.
 
jfaub63 said:
"((QUESTION)) As I start adding Fuel through the PCV to fix the DET issue doesn't that make my engine start losing some of that 5 HP that was gained over the other Pipes in the Shoot Out. " No not necessarily, if it is actually lean causing det you will pick up hp by adding fuel until the point where it cannot burn it all then you will start losing power. Do not get totally caught up on having to add or subtract fuel #'s (within reason) to get your setup dialed in. I have ran into this many times, Fuel pumps running at different pressures, injectors with different flow rates, fuel sock being cleaner or dirtier then you throw in the Tps being set differently by everybody, different factory maps, how hard your clutching is loading the motor and now hearing of throttle bodies that could be bad. Give it what it wants whether it be more or less fuel or timing. Yes it might be a pain in the ass getting this det, but once dialed in this pipemod rips.
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Good info. Thanks for answering that question. I had heard that all that was gained could be lost with adding fuel? I wasn't necessarily sold on that info when I heard it.

As far as dialing it in goes.... I never had the chance to even attempt dialing in the Pipe that threw the DET's. Here in Maine "WINTER SUCKED & MOTHER NATURE WAS VERY CRUEL TO ME" I did manage getting in 1200 great ripping miles on the Pro-S. Unfortunately the SKS only got one ride of 150. DTR set me up with a new Map which I downloaded but never got a chance to try. From picking several different tuners brains, they all felt the new mapping would be too rich. That has yet to be determined??? I'm considering getting the Dynojet Switch so I can load two maps. I think this would help dialing her in faster? I'm guessing if I find a rich map that works, it would make sense to lean that map until I get a DET than fatten it just a touch.

Although I love my SLP Pipe Set up I won't give up on my SSI Mod until I've given her a fair chance dialing her in next year. Even though I'm a shitty tuner I'm getting more knowledge with each passing Winter. Although I prefer the look of a nice shiny pipe over that stock tin shielded pipe, I really like the fact that the SSI pulls good HP and Torque with a completely stock look. I'm sure my dealer will be shocked that I didn't pipe these new sleds this year. Haha.....
 
Brock said:
FYI, I posted that over a year ago. Where do u you think he got it from???
Me and Bruce figured this out on dyno in January 2015.
Look in here and you'll find it about base
Click to expand...
Thanks much Brock for the excellent info from you & Jim last year on the DynoTech sight indicating low rpm & low HP resulted from a base TPS voltage that was higher then .700 volts, which only allowed mid height exhaust valve opening... Then much more HP with a lower TPS base voltage when set at .700 volts on the 2015 800 AXYS sleds at DynoTech, testing $$$$$$...

My 2014 800 Pro R Rush stock had low 8000 rpm & just ok power... I took your advice last year & reset my TPS voltage with a cheap not so accurate multi meter that I used just as a base line voltage, then after 3 tries reducing TPS voltage spark plug readings leaned out perfect to the burn line on the ground electrode, ended at the start of bend line... I got lucky when adjusting the TPS voltage lower which leaned out the engine & much stronger... This year after installing an EXCELLENT BMP pipe, BMP high flow air self & VF3R reeds my PCFC controller indicates TPS at 4.220 volts WOT & idle at 9.641 volts...

Also thanks to Ed for calling me last year & pushed me to gear down my sled to 21/37, now much stronger/faster then a friend's 2016 8000 ZR Cat with a SLP piped, VF3R reeds, SLP air intake & SLP clutching and also quicker then my brothers very strong stock 2015 800 AXYS...
I installed a 21 tooth top gear ($15) & a 37 tooth bottom gear ($20), purchased from E-Bay

Again thanks to all of the very sharp folks on PSP2 taking the extra time & $$$ giving out FREE terrific SPOT ON info!!!
 
Ok, back to the ssi pipe mod.

Internal stingers are very finicky in any pipe. The back pressure,type of fuel,fuel mapping,etc.....

On our last trip I decided to throw on the ssi pipe mod and figure this out as much as I can. I could have easily just thrown on a pipe that I don't need to screw with and just ride. But I'm not like that and I like to figure things out. We had tablets and laptops on our ride to tune. Me and drnotadoo don't give up on anything and I'm glad I had him along for this ride as both inputs were needed. Since riding isn't a controlled environment(monitoring everything on screen), it's hard to figure out exactly were it's throwing a code. It runs fine in ethanol mode. In non-ethanol mod,not so much(det codes everywhere)

Now, I had to enjoy riding with my bud's along with figuring this pipe mod det woes. This ain't easy as I needed to see exact throttle position,what rpm. Fuel was 91 octane with no ethanol. I lost count of all the det codes I threw. I used a pcv tune that we made at dtr with great results and modified it as I rode. I went in every throttle position you can do. Hard from 4000- 8400 rpm, rolling down the trail at 40 mph at 6000 rpm and jab it hard, roll down trail at 7000 rpm at 65 mph and roll up throttle smooth. You name it, I did it. The problem is figuring out the exact throttle position and the fuel cell to add or take away fuel. It's not a controlled environment as I said. I was guessing my best guess then I changed accordingly. You can do changes and not get any better, as I said, the right fuel cell, rpm with throttle position needs to be found were it threw a code. I didn't change the timing as this isn't the problem. It's fuel. Every time I made changes in pcv fuel only map, I made progress. By day 2, I was hardly throwing any det codes, but still made changes to not have any. By end of day 2, I was in every throttle position to make sure it wouldn't det. it still did but was down from throwing codes everywhere to one or two in 4 hours. By day 3 I was code free 5 hours of every style of riding in all throttle positions. Which was making me happy as every time I threw a code, I had to stop and reset. That also means I had to catch up to everyone that was a mile ahead of me,lol

I got it to were it was not throwing any codes

This is on a 2015 with ssi pipe mod with stock muffler,with pcv,running 91 octane with no enthanol. This is a base map that should work for everyone with the exact same mods. If you have a can,head or anything else, that changes everything again. But, this map can be your base map and you may need to figure out were you threw a code. This will help. As for a 2016 800 ho, just try it first. You may need to add 1 or 2% more then the 2015 800 ho. I hope you all can appreciate this effort and it's not a 100% fix. But it is a great base map that will definitely help you out 99%
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I SOOO wish I could get out for a ride and test this Map out. "NO SNOW" THANK YOU VERY MUCH for offering up your mapping. So if you don't mind sharing..... Where was your most popular DET's showing up as you narrowed down your mapping adjustments? It looks as if you covered a broad range of RPM. I was guessing that I'd be centralizing my coverage a little bit higher on the rpm charts? Maybe getting some pre-fuel in the system before the DET zone was the ticket or maybe your DET's came in at a lower rpm than mine? I'm running a 2016 and it seems as though my DET's were locally in the 6500-7000 zone. She would blow the code just as I went from cruising to a mash of the throttle. (( Just curious if we have any similarities? ))
 
When I hooked my sled up at the dealer using digital wrench the mechanic said that it det's before it throws the code it first tries to pull timing and whatever else then if it reaches maximum detonation it throws the code/drops the power valves. So might be starting long before you get the error code
 
JMAXDOX said:
I SOOO wish I could get out for a ride and test this Map out. "NO SNOW" THANK YOU VERY MUCH for offering up your mapping. So if you don't mind sharing..... Where was your most popular DET's showing up as you narrowed down your mapping adjustments? It looks as if you covered a broad range of RPM. I was guessing that I'd be centralizing my coverage a little bit higher on the rpm charts? Maybe getting some pre-fuel in the system before the DET zone was the ticket or maybe your DET's came in at a lower rpm than mine? I'm running a 2016 and it seems as though my DET's were locally in the 6500-7000 zone. She would blow the code just as I went from cruising to a mash of the throttle. (( Just curious if we have any similarities? ))
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The best thing is to have an afr gauge on your sled and narrow it down. Also it's sight,feel, throttle position and rpm to were it lost power. This sled did it everywhere. As I fixed one area, it would do it in another. But at the same time making progress. The thing is, you have to figure out the fuel cell exactly were it threw a code in what throttle position/rpm. Then , you mask a cell earlier and later with fuel . So if it lost power at 60% throttle position @ 7000 rpm cruising at 65 mph , I would add at least 2-3% fuel from 6250 rpm at 40% throttle, to 80% throttle at 7500 rpm. 2-3% fuel isn't much and that's what I'm averaging. It's enough to keep it Happy. So if afr was 13.25 let's say, 2% off of that is 12.985. That's just an example.
Like I said. This will not work 100% unless you have the same 2015 800 ho, with the same mods as me using the same fuel(91 octane only) and roughly about same elevation. But, this can be a great base to start and help and I'm sure it won't throw as many as you were having before.
Get an afr gauge if your adding any mods, it's your best insurance on your mods working correct and safe anyways. About $300.00 and it's installed, that to me is cheap for insurance to keep your sled running safe and last for years.
Hope that helps.
Drnotadoo has a wicked digital afr gauge that's red and big numbers and easy to read.
 
CORY. Thanks for the info on how the D.W. reads a DET. It's interesting info and if that's how it works.... It makes sense to me.

BROCK. Great info and explanation. What was your riding elevation for testing?

Dr. Notadoo. Would love to see a Pic of your Installed Digital AFR gauge. Little info there? Easily swappable from sled to sled?
 
JMAXDOX said:
CORY. Thanks for the info on how the D.W. reads a DET. It's interesting info and if that's how it works.... It makes sense to me.

BROCK. Great info and explanation. What was your riding elevation for testing?

Dr. Notadoo. Would love to see a Pic of your Installed Digital AFR gauge. Little info there? Easily swappable from sled to sled?
Click to expand...
 
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