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Clutching and gearing

Discussion in 'Rush/Switchback' started by Brock, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    If you have an S or an X model the a shorty or switch.

    Proper track tension

    Proper chain tension

    Clutch alignment

    Balancing clutches is worth it.

    0 to 2000' ft above.

    Shorty or switch with a ripsaw or cobra, studs or no studs. 1.74 gear ratio, primary- 120 to 130 lbs rate spring, 70 gram weights(68 if your 275 lbs+)
    Secondary, 66/44.46 or 50/44full , 70 to 90 lbs rate spring.

    Shorty or switch with 1.5" + lug track. 1.81 or 1=86 gear ratio. Primary and secondary the same as above.

    As you see I just named the spring rate, that's because lower/ higher engagement and spring finish lbs can be changed for studs,no studs,1.25" lug or 1.5"+ lug.

    If you choose not to re gear, then none of what I said above will work for you .
     
    Frank pro x and Jet800 like this.
  2.  
  3. racerdave

    racerdave Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    1,056
    Location:
    Will County, Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    since 1976
    Snowmobile:
    AXYS Switcher 800,Indy600sp,XCSP600ves
    Do both helix's give the same shiftout backshift? I have the 66 /44.46 I used on my IQ 800. Never put it in my Axys
     
  4. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    Both are a little different. The full progressive will give a better back shift then the dual angle. Both can up shift just as quick in a drag race as I've seen.
    The 48/44 full progressive is ok too from what I've tested.

    I'm putting the P2 back in and trying it vs tss-04
     
  5. sixpack

    sixpack Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    saskatchewan
    Hmm.......this gearing thing has me torn. I tried numerous different ratios in my PROR 800 switch......1.86, 1.74. 1.69, and finally back to 1.64. Ran each ratio against a test mule (our other 2012 PROR 800 switch geared stock). I thought I would hand him his ass. What happened was I'd get him out of the hole by about a sled length, then at 40-50 MPH he came on me hard and put on 4-5 lengths and I couldn't catch him. We raced in about 4 inches of snow on a stubble field. Checked his max recall and it said 98 MPH.

    Went down to 1.74 ratio and tried him again. Similar results, but stayed with him a little longer. Long story short.....until I geared back up 1.64.......I couldn't touch him. Last race we had in same field our max recalls were both 96-98 MPH.

    Perhaps it was due to spinning?....don't know.

    Talked to SLP as well and asked them why they don't gear the ProS axys with their pipe setup?......this was their answer.

    ".....The S and the R do have different gearing which was intended since there is variables between the two chassis and suspension combinations.
    The stock clutch and belt width will not mechanically achieve full sheave travel so at best there will be 1/4” to 3/8” that will not clean on the top of the sheave. The stock gearing is not too high in the sense that it will get there in “perfect” conditions. It does however provide better rpm to track speed relationship when cruising.

    When adding the extra power of the SLP pipe kit on either sled it will use the gearing more efficiently. With the pipe kit I would use the stock gearing and never gear lower unless you are going to do short drag races.

    Gearing down will give you better low to mid but usually will get softer on top end (conditions will vary with snow load). In heavier snow the lower gears will usually pull more top but the same gears on hard pack will not run as fast as higher ratio........
    "

    Not trying to contradict your advice, Brock. Just found it odd.

    Our new 2015 PRO S 800 Axys with the 1.6 Cobra track, I geared it down to 1.68. Did not want to venture any lower because of my past results with our 2012 PROR 800 switch's.

    Interesting to see how the Axys 800 will run against our PROR's.....
     
    in2deepxp likes this.
  6. racerdave

    racerdave Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    1,056
    Location:
    Will County, Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    since 1976
    Snowmobile:
    AXYS Switcher 800,Indy600sp,XCSP600ves
    I had similar results and posted them on HCS .Most disagreed with me, but a few said the same.

    Mods, if you don't want that link here pm me and I will remove it, or I am sure you can.
     
  7. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
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    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    I tell u what guys. I have a timing system that is way more accurate then seat of the pants and side x side racing . Racing to top mph, reading speedometers on sleds Etc.........
    I'm not saying u guys are wrong in ur situation. I'm just giving my experience .

    60' times 330' times , 500, 660',800' 1200,..Etc.......

    60' times are very important. Get them all the same with different combinations and see what happens. Time it and mph at end of whatever distance of choice.
    The lower gear ratios always, always win hands down all the time in et and mph usually . Example: 1.64 vs 1.74 ratios.

    I'd run a 1.55 et sixty foot time let's say.
    Now change stuff and keep the sixty foot time close on all different combinations. This tells your traction.this means equal traction for each set up then. Get it?? Makes it a fair comparison on different combinations. Not seat of the pants and reading mph on sled, way to much to be way off.
    A good example of this is 500' grass dragging. Two guys using different ratios. A 2.00 vs a 2.21 ratio,. Both can net the same mph in 500'.(600cc around 82mph).
    But the guy using the 2.21 ratio can get there quicker by 4 lengths. And the lower gear ratio user can add more primary weight,steeper helix, etc..... Hence getting there faster.

    Plus,when u gear tall. Clutching is inconsistent and u can't add as much primary weight. Polaris twins like the primary weight.

    I'll choose what I see on a timing system and a radar gun as I explained above. And I'll choose a lower gear ratio 99% of the time.
    :)
     
  8. Bigfuse

    Bigfuse Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    Sunny Manitoba
    When I had stock gearing in my 2015 Pro S 800 all that I could get for top speed was 106 mph as indicated on my speedo. The belt never ever went to the top of the primary. After I geared it down to 1.74 and reclutched it I achieved 112 mph and the belt went to the top of the primary. Granted stock gearing will get you good speed on Hero Snow, but how often do you ride on Hero Snow?
     
  9. bunner47

    bunner47 New Member

    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    Ontario
    What gears would be used to get the 1.80 ratio for the pro x sb ? Dropping down would add to the top end?
     
  10. racerdave

    racerdave Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    1,056
    Location:
    Will County, Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    since 1976
    Snowmobile:
    AXYS Switcher 800,Indy600sp,XCSP600ves
    Ed I have to guess what you like or refer to as "hero" snow for me is hardpack. That is what I like to Ron on and usually the same packed road in Vilas County Wisconsin. 109mph indicated on several different days/month's last year on my all stock AxysSWB8 last year all on that same road. We will see what the 1.74 gets me this season.
     
    proS800 likes this.
  11. Bigfuse

    Bigfuse Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    Sunny Manitoba
    I haven't messed with the Pro X so I really can't help you there. Brock would know.
     
  12. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    I remember when you had the 1.61 stock ratio you said all you could get is 106mph no matter what you did for clutching. Also, all you could add is 68 grams weights, if I remember correctly??
    Put the 1.74 ratio in and added 72 gram weights and gained from 106 to 112 mph . That's more efficient.

    What some aren't getting is the light weights(66 grams) and heavy springs don't work on the axys . Way to much heat,slippage,belt residue, rpm loss.etc........

    Gear it a little lower, add more primary weight(to pinch belt) and use the lightest springs possible. This will help immensely with clutch heat,belt residue and not loose rpm
     
  13. racerdave

    racerdave Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    1,056
    Location:
    Will County, Illinois
    Country:
    USA
    Years Snowmobiling:
    since 1976
    Snowmobile:
    AXYS Switcher 800,Indy600sp,XCSP600ves
    Would you guys agree or disagree that a heavier (250#-275#) rider might be better off with 68 or 70 gram weights? Yes I know, testing is the ultimate answer.

    One of the Lightest springs possible comes stock in the primary. Gold.
     
  14. Brock

    Brock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Location:
    Ontario
    Country:
    Canada
    Years Snowmobiling:
    30+
    Snowmobile:
    Polaris
    I'm 225 and I'm using 73+ grams. Depends on what I'm doing??
    Get a set of 70's and if it's to much. Grind a little off the side profile :)
     
  15. eightpilot

    eightpilot Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Mosinee, WI
    Seems like you could run the stock 68 pitch chain with the bigger 23/40 gears. Has anyone tried this? Or is everyone spending the $$ and getting the 70 pitch chain?
     
  16. Bigfuse

    Bigfuse Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    Sunny Manitoba
    I don't think that you can get the 68 pitch chain on with 23-40 gears. If you do let us know how that worked out for you.
     
  17. eightpilot

    eightpilot Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Mosinee, WI
    I'm gonna give it a shot when it shows up and post the results....
     
    Brock likes this.
  18. Bigfuse

    Bigfuse Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    Sunny Manitoba
    Don't even bother as you'll never get the 68 pitch chain on. If you go to 23-40 gearing you'll definitely need the 70 pitch chain. Trust me I've tried and the service manual also recommends this chain with the 23-40 pitch chain.
     
  19. eightpilot

    eightpilot Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Mosinee, WI
    So what vendor are you guys all getting your 70 pitch chains through....Polaris? Team? Aftermarket?
     
  20. Bigfuse

    Bigfuse Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    Sunny Manitoba
    i get mine from my dealer.
     
  21. Jet800

    Jet800 Member

    Messages:
    98
    I got my Team gears & chain thru Amazon. Free shipping.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015

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